Baskin, 69, negotiated with Hamas in 2006 for the release of kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, and has been involved in the negotiations during the current war. He says it is only a political war, as there are no longer any strategic objectives in Gaza, where the genocide took place.

Hamas has accepted a proposal for a cessation of hostilities, which envisages a 60-day ceasefire, the release of ten live hostages, nineteen bodies of hostages and around 1,500 imprisoned Palestinians. Why did Hamas accept this proposal?

They have been accepting this proposal for a long time, but they also wanted to reach an agreement to end the war. They wanted guarantees from the Americans that a 60-day ceasefire would lead to a permanent ceasefire, but I don't think the US gave them that. Hamas has shown in the past that it is willing to release all hostages within 24 to 48 hours. That hasn't happened because Netanyahu doesn't agree to end the war.

Are you skeptical that Israel will accept the proposal to end the fighting?

No, I think he'll accept it and then break the deal, just like he did last time.

Are you talking about the multi-phase ceasefire agreement that went into effect immediately after Trump arrived in the White House and is supposed to lead to a permanent ceasefire?

That's right. This agreement never went into the second phase, when they were supposed to start negotiating a permanent ceasefire and end the talks on the thirtieth day of that phase. Israel returned to war after six days. I am sure they will violate this ceasefire as well, which would mean sacrificing ten live hostages.

For Israelis, October 7 and the subsequent war in Gaza should be a wake-up call that you cannot occupy a people for 58 years, or lock 2.3 million people in Gaza, where 80 percent of the population lives in poverty, and expect to live in peace on your own. For Palestinians, it should be a wake-up call that there is no viable armed resistance to achieve their goals of freedom, security, and dignity. At the political level, the political leadership must be removed. Netanyahu, Abbas, and Hamas must go.

There have been several attempts to establish a new ceasefire in recent months. Proposals have ranged from a multi-phased cessation of hostilities to an immediate permanent ceasefire. None of these attempts have been successful. Why?

The answer to this is very simple: Hamas wanted an agreement to end the war, but Israel does not want to end the war. Netanyahu wants Hamas to surrender. But it will never do that. Both sides are prepared to continue fighting, and for a long time. Netanyahu's political career depends on the continuation of the war. Such a situation keeps his coalition in power, and in the future, he can delay elections, continue with the de facto annexation of parts of the West Bank, and build more settlements because of the war.

Since the international community is not punishing Israel, continuing the war also allows it to evacuate the Palestinian population from central Gaza to the south. It will try to relocate 800,000 people over the next month. In the meantime, it has already begun intensified attacks on Gaza City.

More and more European countries are considering recognizing Palestine. There is also talk of imposing economic sanctions on Israel. On the other hand, the US ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, says that the actions of Europeans only help terrorists. So what else can the international community do?

I suggest we don't listen to this evangelical-messianic lunatic. He doesn't represent Israeli public opinion, and he doesn't represent American public opinion. I'm not even sure he represents President Trump's opinion. For example, he has said in the past that the Palestinian people don't exist, that the West Bank and illegal Israeli settlements don't exist.

Among the measures available to the international community is certainly the recognition of Palestine. This could have happened years ago. Any country that advocates a two-state solution but recognizes only one is co-responsible for the current situation and is not being honest with itself. It is time for recognition, but it is also time to realize that this will not change anything. We do not need any more new declarations and empty talk. There is an international convention on the prevention of genocide, which very clearly states that the international community has an obligation to prevent genocide. Those countries that do not do this are complicit in it. What is happening in Gaza is not the Holocaust that the Nazis committed against the Jews. But it is genocide by legal definition. Israel has turned the Gaza Strip into an unsuitable living environment for 2.3 million people. It has destroyed all the infrastructure and 80 percent of the buildings. Two million people are homeless.

Countries in the international community must impose sanctions against Israel that would remain in effect until Israel ends the war in Gaza and withdraws.

People calling the war in Gaza a genocide are not very common.

I would like to contradict you here. It pains me as a Jew to say this, but three major Holocaust scholars have said that the war in Gaza was genocide.

Most Israelis want the war to end. But as the civilian death toll in Gaza skyrocketed, they looked away. What has changed in Israeli society now?

Civilian casualties have been rising rapidly since the first week of the war, when Israel carried out a massive bombardment. More than 60,000 have now been killed, most of them women, children and non-combatants. Most Israelis do not see what is happening in Gaza. Our media does not show the reality there.

Nobody here wants Hamas to stay in power. But it will not be driven out of power by the Israeli army. It will be driven out by the Palestinians and their Arab neighbors. Nobody in the region wants Hamas to survive, nobody will contribute a single dollar to reconstruction if Hamas continues to rule. With the end of the war, Hamas will also be finished, that is final and irreversible. They are severely decimated. But as long as the Israeli army is in Gaza, they will continue to fight and they will have the opportunity to kill Israeli soldiers. This war no longer has any strategic goals. It is just a political war aimed at the survival of Netanyahu and his government. They can no longer hit Hamas's targets. If they kill the commanders, who are now already from the third level of the previous command structure, they will be replaced by those from the fourth level.

So Hamas has changed a lot since you negotiated with them for the release of soldier Gilad Shalit.

I have negotiated with Hamas in this war, even in the last few days. Hamas is indeed a very different movement than it was then. They were already different on October 7th, when they decided to commit Palestinian national suicide without asking the Palestinians if they were willing to pay the price. I believe that most Palestinians are now coming to the conclusion that there is no viable armed struggle in which they can liberate Palestine by killing Israelis. They can indeed claim that they have the right under international law to armed resistance to the occupation. But armed struggle is not a sustainable strategy. Ninety percent of the people in Gaza want Hamas to pick up the awl and hooves.

Judging from your contacts with Hamas, do they understand the position they are in? Is this perhaps reflected in their negotiating positions?

No, they don't understand. They will never admit defeat. They will say that time and God are on their side and that they have to pay a high price for liberation. They will say that they have put the Palestinian issue back on the international agenda and that the recognition of Palestine is coming because of them. This is false, because Hamas never supported a two-state solution. It was founded because it opposed the Oslo peace accords. The recognition of Palestine is in fact a reward for modern Palestinians who want to live in peace with their Israeli neighbors. The countries that now recognize Palestine also recognize Israel.

Relations between Palestinians and Israelis are as broken as ever. Such relations cannot be a good basis for seeking a two-state solution.

For Israelis, October 7th and the subsequent war in Gaza should be a wake-up call that you cannot occupy people for 58 years or lock 2.3 million people in Gaza, where 80 percent of the population lives in poverty, and expect to live in peace. For Palestinians, however, it should be a wake-up call that there is no sustainable armed resistance to achieve their goals of freedom, security, and dignity. At the political level, the leadership must be removed; Netanyahu, Abbas, and Hamas must go. As long as this triangle of political power exists, we will suffocate. When new leaders come in, new opportunities will open up. The key thing at this moment is what Trump will do, who clearly wants to end the war in Gaza. He has certain demands on Hamas that it would be willing to accept, and Israel would be forced to end the war. I don't know why Hamas was pushed again to propose a temporary ceasefire, when a comprehensive agreement to end the war was on the table.

When the Oslo Accords were signed, there was hope that peace would come. There was even a timeline for a two-state solution – it was supposed to be achieved within five years.

That is not true. There was a timeline for a lasting solution. There was never a Palestinian state in the Oslo Accords. Nor was it written anywhere that Israel should not build settlements in the occupied territories. This was a big mistake by the Palestinians. Israel never officially recognized the Palestinians' right to a state. When Arafat gave Rabin a letter in 1993 in which the Palestinian people recognized the right to exist in Israel and its secure borders, Rabin's letter to Arafat stated that they recognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people, but did not recognize their right to a state.

But both sides worked towards a two-state solution.